Elizabeth Moon

SF3 has withdrawn the invitation to Elizabeth Moon to attend WisCon 35 as guest of honor.

Comments concerning this statement can be left below or sent to info@sf3.org.

Comments are also being collected at WisCon’s Momentary Taste of WisCon blog, at http://wisconnews.blogspot.com/2010/10/elizabeth-moon.html

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188 Responses to Elizabeth Moon

  1. John Fetters says:

    Re: Elizabeth Moon: ingracious and over-reacting poltroons, all of you.

  2. CRD says:

    Thank you for taking a stand against racism.

  3. QM says:

    Free Speech 0 Misogynists 1

  4. Julie says:

    I’m going to second what CRD said– thank you for taking a stand.

  5. contiffy says:

    Doing this to Moon will put her in good company with Heinlein who was called a fascist by a bunch of morons. You are all a bunch of embarrassing politically correct fools. No wonder SciFi & Fantasy totally sucks today. It’s written by a bunch of fascist unimaginative tools.

  6. Paul says:

    Ah yes, tolerance . . . for everyone who agrees with you. Congratulations on your warm embrace of fascism.

  7. Timwi says:

    Do you really have in your advertisement that you welcome discussions of gender, race, and class? You have been revealed as a bunch of ninnies who over react and are in fact afraid to discuss the real issues of the day. I have a newsflash for you. When you are in those long lines at the airports and forced to take off your shoes you aren’t doing it because of blacks, whites, Jews, Hindus or Buddhists. You are doing it because of Muslims. I know it’s a big secret to you, but there are radical Muslims out there who want to murder you and your children and to put you beneath a death shroud, and to bury you to your shoulders and stone you to death if you engage in any behavior the men don’t like. And don’t forget the gay among you who would be murdered for your sexual orientation. Grow up and stop hiding your heads in the sand. If you were true feminists you would realize the fight for freedom for our generation is to free the women of Islam. Stop being afraid and don’t call yourself feminists if you are going to cower over fear of Muslim men.

  8. Flourish says:

    I’m astonished that people think that it’s “fascist” to withdraw a GoH invitation. Moon is not banned from the conference, or from speaking at the conference. There is no censorship and certainly no “fascism” going on here.

  9. Timwi says:

    Flourish- It is fascist to shut down speech you don’t agree with. Maybe you could have a book burning of her books at your celebration of discussion of gender, race, and class? Hypocrisy is so ashamed of you that it has run away screaming and pleading not to be associated with you.

  10. SC says:

    So you’ve booted her from being GOH. Have you followed through and scheduled her for reeducation camp yet? Because, you know, it’s the only way to ensure deviants are made intellectually pure.

  11. Scott says:

    You revoked your guest of honor invitation over THAT? How cowardly and foolish that is. I’ll be spending no money on anything related to your convention.

  12. R. Emrys says:

    Thank you for choosing not to honor Moon–it would not have been appropriate. If she’s really interested in expressing herself and having open dialogue, she can open up her comment threads again.

  13. lady says:

    Good lord, some people around here really need to look up fascism. Being demoted from guest of honor at some little conference is about ten thousand miles away from the government dragging you out of your home for opposing the state. Get a grip.

  14. Elfwreck says:

    I know it’s a big secret to you, but there are radical Muslims out there who want to murder you and your children and to put you beneath a death shroud

    There are radical Christians who want to do that to my family, and they outnumber the Muslims in the US by several orders of magnitude, so I’m pretty unconcerned about the potential Muslim threat.

    I am glad to see WisCon making a statement that they don’t promote bigotry or reward racism by giving its supporters top billing at their convention.

  15. GMan says:

    It’s unsurprising that the thought police are out and about in Madison, WI.

  16. lady, when you do what fascists do, it doesn’t matter whether you do that by law or choice.

    Here’s the saddest thing: Not a dot of ink in Elizabeth Moon’s books has changed between the time she made her bigoted remarks and now. If her work was worth honoring then, it’s still worth honoring. She never signed an oath of ideological purity. I despise Islamophobia as much as anyone, but I despise the suppression of dissent just as much. Ideas must be defeated by better ideas, not by fiat.

  17. red says:

    -I know it’s a big secret to you, but there are radical Muslims out there who want to murder you and your children and to put you beneath a death shroud-

    Elfwreck wrote:
    “There are radical Christians who want to do that to my family, and they outnumber the Muslims in the US by several orders of magnitude, so I’m pretty unconcerned about the potential Muslim threat. ”

    Odd, I’ve missed any recent radical Christians killing entire families in mass. Could you please enlightenment me to where these evil killers are operating? Wait, I think I see them in your closet! Quick, hide under the bed.

  18. Timwi says:

    Elfwreck- there are roving bands of Christians who want to cover you in a long black blanket and murder your children? Huh. Haven’t read much about that in the papers lately. You’ll have to send links to all the articles which discuss these evil Christians and the harm they have caused and the steps everyone has needed to take to avoid being murdered by these evil Christians. Then I’ll send links to all the articles which reference people Muslims have killed across the world in the last ten years and we can compare.

  19. Timwi says:

    Nicely said Will.

  20. Bob says:

    This being a sff convention, the reasons you selected Moon in the first place are still existent. Her statement reflecting her values should not have surprised anyone, her being an ex Marine and all. I think you all waited to see which way the wind was blowing before making your decision, which is the act of people easily intimidated in other words cowardly. What was it no people, no money?

  21. Dave Harris says:

    Wow.
    Just ‘wow’.
    1) I was planning on attending but will not be doing so.
    2) Moon isn’t the ‘fascist’ the committee of WISCon is and so are the people calling for her to ‘dis-invited’.
    3) ONCE AGAIN liberal fascists prove the maxim that they are all for diversity
    until you disagree with them
    4) You people are just plain wrong and an embarrassment to the idea of free and
    open discussion of ideas. The only cure for speech you disagree with is MORE
    speech.
    5) I would think you would be ashamed for yourselves for your action but it is
    apparent you have no shame.
    6) It is childish and idiotic for ANY ONE to take offense at the truthful statement
    that Islamic terrorists murdered 2900+ people and want the West destroyed.
    Hiding under your beds is not going to stop them and if they take control
    feminists and liberals will be the first people they ‘line up against the wall’.

  22. Yama says:

    @contiffy

    Yeah, um, except 2009-2010 has been excellent for sff, and Heinlein was a terrible writer.

  23. Paul Wren says:

    Well, it *is* a science _fiction_ and fantasy convention. I suppose it would out of place to have someone there who was actually saying true things.

  24. erriel says:

    This is a great first step. Intolerant opinions that make distinctions between people and ideas should not be tolerated.
    You obviously mean well, but if you truly had an open mind and could accept the “other” you strain to respect by smiting the blasphemous harlot who slandered the Prophet’s people and his message of one peace for all under one Great True God, you would show true recognition of His Holiness and Truth if all your female participants and servants covered their heads, at least out of a show of symbolic solidarity with the holy struggle against the intolerance of blasphemy and negativity. Otherwise you are simply offending us and Allah all the more with what would seem just a cheap diversion to distract us, as if you feared us, as if we merited such overcautious fearful subservience from our women. Wrong – Allah loves women, Islam is custom made for their natural inclinations and desires, so they too might be purified enough to escape eternal punishment for their inborn weakness.
    Your refusal to respect Allah out of love rather than cowardice offends Him and all of us even more. I know you will reconsider make your conference such an affront to millions of Muslims all over the world.
    Oh, and Elfwreck, watch what you say about people of the Book if you attend our conference – Allah loves and cares for their protection from satan as well, and he hears all. Who do you think holds the murderous Christians at bay, sparing your pathetic hollow life from their righteous but misled tools of purification? You’re welcome, you sniveling weakling. Now keep standing with us, but shut up with your worn out Western categories of equivalence until you learn the way of wisdom and what is actually wrong and threatening to the one true God, rather than what petty mortals make you tremble most.
    You make us all look uneducated and unaware believers in comforting fairy-tales, (like the old Satanic lie that all ideas, religions, and individuals are equal and practically the same). You not only disrespect Allah with such echoes of ignorant inanity, but all thinking, literate human beings and angels graced with His light of reason and discrimination.

  25. Layogenic says:

    Poor, poor white girl! All she did was hate and espouse violence against a bunch of marginalized people! Why are you being so meeeeen?

  26. If she’d said that feminists would be better served by conforming to the dominate norms and ideals of the society they’re living in so they could become better citizens instead of expecting men to make concessions that made them “feel” better, I think Wiscon would be a lot less divided over the issue.

    This is one of those defining moments when Wiscon needs to decide what it’s really all about.

    And, Timwi, though your comment was incredibly stupid in so many ways, I’ll only address this part of it, since this may be the part you best understand: there are a whole hell of a lot of Muslim women who would be incredibly offended at the idea that they need to be “freed” from their faith. Try saying that to the next Christian or Jewish woman you meet, and see what her reaction is.

    Til then, start by googling “Islamic feminist movement,” and educate yourself before spouting off about how your flavor of feminism will “free” a generation of women who are and have been addressing these issues since the religion’s inception.

  27. Tantor says:

    The only bigotry on display here is the political bigotry of the SF3 which is showing itself as an enemy of free speech, a curious feature for a literary group. However, its location in Madison, Wisconsin, a center for intolerant radical leftist thought, explains a lot. Madison is still celebrating the bombing of the ROTC center there and the murder and maiming of those inside. It’s hardly a surprise that the leftist extremists there would suppress criticism of a totalitarian political system like Islam.

    Ms. Moon deserves our support for her righteous criticism of Islam, its bloody history, and its belligerence toward America and Americans. SF3 will soon be consigned to the dustbin of history for its opposition to free speech.

  28. Squid says:

    I look forward to the impending sanctions on Elfwreck. Such religious intolerance is intolerable!

  29. Squid says:

    All she did was hate and espouse violence against a bunch of marginalized people!

    That is a lie, and you are a liar. One would think that such slander against women would be unwelcome in a forum such as this.

  30. bobby b says:

    “WisCon encourages discussion and debate of ideas relating to feminism, gender, race and class.”
    – – – – –

    Seems sort of ironic now in hindsight, doesn’t it?

    And, as for the seemingly universal organizational opinion that what EM did was “hate and espouse violence against a bunch of marginalized people”, this incredibly facile and ignorant interpretation of her 9/11 post could only be more shocking and appalling if it came from some group devoted, in theory, to literacy and reading.

    Oh, wait, . . . .

  31. Synova says:

    We’ve already got vaginas in common, why do we all have to think the same?

    I’ll have to check the list of author attendees to see who is unlikely to have an original thought so I can save my money.

    (Considering a number of Moon’s books that are flagrantly feminist and hostile to the religious patriarchy, I do have to wonder which hormonal gland the organizers of this “feminist” Con are using in place of a brain.)

  32. L. Ron Hubbard says:

    “There are radical Christians who want to do that to my family, and they outnumber the Muslims in the US by several orders of magnitude, so I’m pretty unconcerned about the potential Muslim threat. ”

    Radical Christians = Amish

    FEAR THE AMISH!

  33. JT says:

    For all you numbnuts out there Isam is a religion NOT a race!
    and as for calling people fascist who disagree with Moon’s
    uninvitation, the muslims and nazi’ where allies during World
    War II

  34. Goss says:

    Thank you.

  35. Kyle Kiernan says:

    Curiosity question: Is GoH a paid gig?
    If yes, is the con going to cough up? If yes and then no: what gives?

    Kinda tough to have a discussion when everybody’s opinion has been iron filinged in an MRI.

  36. The great irony, of course, is that Islamism is the greatest existent global threat to woman’s rights in the 21st century. To have a feminist science fiction convention dis-invite their Guest of Honor because of her exceptionally mild (at least to those who live outside the politically correct bell jar of militant, far-left identity politics) criticisms of the flaws of modern Islam is particularly sad.

    http://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=2744

  37. Jacob Sommer says:

    I am not with SF3 and have never been to WisCon. This is my first time even entering WisCon space on the web.

    Elizabeth Moon is free to have her opinions. She is free to write them down, speak them aloud and disseminate them as she wishes. Anybody can agree with her, or everybody can, or perhaps nobody at all.

    WisCon is also free to have opinions. They are free to invite anybody they want and disinvite anybody they want, for any reason they so choose or for no reason whatsoever. Anybody can agree with SF3, or not.

    SF3 found itself in a bind: they had invited Ms. Moon, but her statements made her a lightning rod for criticism and threatened attendance at WisCon. Some people were going to complain if she was there; some people were going to complain if she was disinvited as GoH. Other conventions have faced this problem. Guest of Honor means that you want to honor somebody. Yes, you primarily want to honor them for their work, but you also want people to see just how nifty the guest is. Her statements made her, in some eyes, Not Very Nifty.

    Ms. Moon can still espouse her views. She can still go to WisCon if she so desires. However, from where I am sitting (Boston-ish) SF3 has shown that they do not consider those statements of hers to be nifty and do not want to appear to support them.

    @Timwi: you said, “Flourish- It is fascist to shut down speech you don’t agree with.” Ms. Moon apparently shut down all discussion on blogs she controls in response to her statements, deleting all comments. It is, to be fair, her space. Nevertheless, you made an unequivocal statement. Does this make Ms. Moon a fascist in your eyes? Your statement would suggest it does.

    I am not interested in discussing anybody’s motives here. I am interested in ratcheting down the anger.

  38. Kyle Kiernan says:

    nice one Erriel.

  39. Yama says:

    @JT

    Um, no they weren’t. The Turks were persecuted by the Filov regime in Bulgaria, the Chinese Muslims were ardent about purging the Japanese Empire from China, Jinnah urged every Muslim in India to take up arms against the Japanese (while the Hindus supported Japan), many a Muslim fought for the Soviet Union, the Moros fought against both Japan and the marionette Laurel.

  40. Kyle Kiernan says:

    Yama: that Shakespeare guy? suckola. Milton? stilton.

    dwarves have been chopping that tree for ages and it still isn’t anywhere near falling.

  41. Julian says:

    Thank you for withdrawing her invitation as Guest of Honor. Please don’t give in to all the whiners here complaining about “facism” and “free speech” and “censorship,” concepts they clearly don’t even understand. Moon can still attend the con, and engage in a debate about her views if she wants – but I think one of the big problems was that when she shut down and deleted comments from her post, she was proving that she isn’t interested in a debate.

    Honestly it’s hard for me to believe that (most of) the angry people posting here would even have gone to Wiscon in the first place.

  42. Tattersoul says:

    The sight of “feminists” siding with the most misogynistic (not to mention homophobic) ideology of modern times to suppress and reprimand one of their own for daring to express non-approved thought is quite amazing, and sad, to behold.

    And Flourish – you’re either disingenuous, willfully obtuse, or don’t really know what the word fascist means – likely a combination of the 3. I think Will Shetterly’s response is correct in both tone and content.

    And one final little quibble with the commenter who applauds WisCon’s stand against “racism”. Islam is not a race – it is a political ideology masquerading as religion that seeks to suppress any opposing or negative viewpoints or press reports by screaming “that’s RACIST” at the top of its lungs and hoping that politically correct useful idiots will suppress any opposing viewpoints for them. So on that front – well done, WisCon, well done. L. Ron Hubbard would be proud, I’m sure.

  43. Karen Swanberg says:

    Thank you, SF3.

    The invitation to be GoH has been withdrawn. No one is trying to shut her up. She’s welcome to come to the convention. But we will not HONOR a racist at this event.

    Let me remind those who are against this decision: Moon said in the post

    “…many Muslims have all the virtues of civilized persons and are admirable in all those ways.”

    If that had read “many [african-americans, gays, or white men] have all the virtues of civilized persons and are admirable in all those ways” you would not be reacting this way.

  44. Kyle Kiernan says:

    But are they clean and well-spoken?

  45. Pingback: Cowardly WisCon Comcon Caves « Lawrence Person's BattleSwarm Blog

  46. Yama says:

    @Kyle

    What are you talking about?

  47. Kyle Kiernan says:

    Heinlein a terrible writer. Sheesh someone is always trying to drag that one out again to show how cool they are. Give us a ring when you get a thousandth of his history/capability/sales.

  48. Tattersoul says:

    “…many Muslims have all the virtues of civilized persons and are admirable in all those ways.”

    If that had read “many [african-americans, gays, or white men] have all the virtues of civilized persons and are admirable in all those ways” you would not be reacting this way .

    And if that had read “many Christians/southerners/conservatives…..”, I’m equally sure the GoH would not have been rescinded.

  49. Yama says:

    You know who else’s a bestselling author? Dan Brown.

  50. Kyle Kiernan says:

    Fun reads, but not multiple reads.

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